The Future of the SUNY System with Chancellor John King

Dan Clark: More than 360,000 students in New York attend one of the state's 64 public colleges or universities. That's the SUNY system, the State University of New York, and in the past few decades, it's been changing.

For one, enrollment is dropping, and fast. There were about 100,000 fewer students enrolled in SUNY schools in 2022 than a decade earlier. For two, we've gone through three SUNY chancellors over that same period, and the last one resigned as part of former Governor Andrew Cuomo’s sexual harassment scandals. So now the SUNY system is trying to move forward after that and COVID with a new chancellor.

John King was the US Secretary of Education under President Obama, and before that he was state education commissioner right here in New York. Now he's back as the state's new SUNY chancellor. We sat down to chat about his vision for SUNY, Governor Hochul proposed tuition hikes and more.

SUNY Chancellor John King, thank you so much for being here.

John King: Thanks for the opportunity.

DC: Of course, any time.

So, the SUNY system is such a big, complicated system. I'm really interested in how you view the SUNY system right now. Coming in as chancellor, you came in and in December and January, and where do you want to take it? So, let's start with your view of SUNY.

JK: Well you know, SUNY is an incredible community of institutions. 64 campuses that provide a range of opportunities for students from community colleges, to our four-year comprehensive institutions, technology colleges, our university centers that are doing cutting edge research, we have three medical centers, so it's really a broad range of opportunities. I like to say there's a place for every New York student at SUNY.

DC: I really think that, and before we were recording this interview, we were talking about how there are certain campuses that are more specialized, and people really find their home on these campuses. I think that's really special.

JK: That's exactly right, it's inspiring. You know, when you spend time on a campus and you see that students have found the thing that they're passionate about, it's really an amazing opportunity to be a part of this community. As we look ahead today, SUNY is arguably the most affordable, high quality, public higher education available in the country. But the governor has said, as has our board, that we really want to be the best public higher education system in the country. The best. And that means there are some things we need to do.

We need to make sure that more New York students know about the opportunities at SUNY. We have to make sure that when students get to our campuses, they don't just start but finish, so, student success is critical. Diversity, equity, and inclusion is critical. We don't right now have a student body that fully reflects the diversity of our state. Our faculty doesn't fully reflect the diversity of our state, our campus leadership teams don’t, so, we have work to do to make sure that that we reflect the rich diversity of New York. We've got to make sure that we're growing research and scholarship. Our campuses can be a part of solving the biggest problems we face as a society, whether it's climate change or protecting the health of our democracy here and abroad.

The fourth priority for me is around economic development and upward mobility. In many parts of the state SUNY is one of the largest employers. Our campuses are going to be critical to preparing the workforce for the semiconductor industry as Micron comes to central New York. We've got great nanotech work happening at Albany that's going to help spur the growth of that sector here. We've got battery research happening at Binghamton that's going to help us get to net zero. Lots of good jobs to be created and in green renewable energy technologies. So, I'm very excited about what we can build on a base that is incredibly strong. It's really an asset for the state.

DC: How do we get there? These are, you know, very expansive ideas, and the campuses obviously need guidance and funding, I would assume to make them happen. So, is that what it comes down to? Would you seek better financial infusion from the state to make this plan a reality, or do you see another strategy?

JK: Resources and partnership I would say. Resources are critical. We need the state to invest. The governor and legislature last year made some big commitments, for example, the tuition assistance program, reaching part time students, that was a big deal, we appreciated that.

The governor has made a number of proposals going into this year's budget process, $500 million endowment matching fund that would galvanize $1,000,000,000 in philanthropy to support research at our university centers. The trustees have asked for an increase in operating aid so that we can continue to provide student support across all of our campuses and attract the best faculty.

The resources are critical, but so are partnerships with employers, with communities, with community-based organizations. As Micron to Syracuse area, we want them to know Onondaga Community College is going to be a key partner in providing the workforce that they need. For our health care providers around the state, we want them to know we need their partnership to develop the health care workforce that we need. So, if we can get more resources and build those partnerships, we can fulfill that vision of SUNY as the best public higher education system in the country.

DC: Speaking of all of this, there's a proposal from the governor this year in her state of the state to allow SUNY to raise tuition at most campuses 3%, for flagship campuses 6%. How do you feel about that as SUNY chancellor?

JK: Well, we've got to make sure that there's operating aid to support the campuses, and I'm going to make the case with the legislature that that we need to see an increase in operating aid. That said, it is very helpful to campuses to be able to plan and know reliably how tuition will change over time. So, what the governor's proposed is a very modest increase that will keep SUNY as the most affordable, high quality, public higher education in the country, but allow campuses to do planning.

It's important to note that 53% of our students at our four-year institutions now don't pay tuition because of Pell, the Tuition Assistance Program and Excelsior, which is available to families making up to $125,000. So, we're talking about a modest increase for a portion of our students in order to provide that reliable, sustainable, predictable path for our campuses.

The governor's also proposed flexibility for our 4 university centers because they are investing a lot of resources in research, they're trying to attract world class faculty to lead that research, and so they need to have that flexibility. Other states provide their flagship institutions with that kind of flexibility.

DC: It would be a modest increase, but I can see families, if this happens this year, being upset that during a time of great inflation, a time of cost of living going up, that tuition is going to go up as well, even though it's a small amount. What would you say to those families?

JK: Our commitment is to make sure that if the governor's proposal goes through, that those dollars translate into better opportunities for students, recruiting great faculty members, providing student supports, mental health services are a key investment that we need to make across our campuses. We had challenges before COVID, but COVID in many ways exacerbated the mental health needs across our system. So, our commitment is that extra 200 some odd dollars a year, we're going to turn that into better supports and opportunities for students.

DC: In terms of the state funding side of it, I'm not familiar with how much more money you are seeking this year, the board of trustees is seeking this year. Can you kind of give us a snapshot of what you would like to see in the state budget?

JK: We asked for a modest increase, about $133 million, which is really to make sure that our campuses are able to keep up with salary increases and rising energy costs. So that's modest. We also asked for a $60 million investment in initiatives to better align our programs with current market demands. Last year, the legislature and governor committed $60 million to those sorts of initiatives, and it's allowed us to expand programs in nursing, cybersecurity, and green jobs. We want to continue to be able to do that, and that extra $60 million would help us move forward.

Then we've got capital investments. You know, as SUNY alum, we have fantastic campuses, but many of the buildings are somewhat older.

DC: They are.

JK: And we certainly need funding to do maintenance and upkeep, but we also need funding to have great lab space so that students can get the best, most up to date learning in the STEM fields. We need capital support for our hospitals that are somewhat outdated in some of their facilities and could use upgrades. So, we're hopeful that the governor and legislature will make some real capital investments in our campuses this year.

DC: I want to talk to you about something that you brought up earlier that I found really interesting and really on point, is this diversity issue in the SUNY system in terms of, as you said, the student body, the leadership teams, everything like that. How do you get to a more diverse SUNY system? This is something that we've dealt with for many years.

JK: You know, there are a couple pieces. One is you have to make sure that campuses are a place where students feel a sense of belonging, a sense of safety, a sense of being seen. You've got to make sure that students know about the opportunities. There are a lot of students, for example, in New York City, Long Island, Westchester, and diverse communities. They may know about Stony Brook or Buffalo, maybe Binghamton and Albany, but they don't necessarily know about Fredonia or Brockport.

DC: Or the community colleges.

JK: Or the community colleges. And we are fortunate that many of our community colleges actually have dorm space. So, students who want to go away to school could actually do that coming to one of our community colleges very affordably. So, we've got to do work to make sure that folks know about the opportunities at SUNY.

We're seeing good progress, we've seen a big increase in applications this year. We're hoping that turns into enrollment gains across campuses. We also are building what we call a cascading admissions model where, because you might only know about Stony Brook and Buffalo, you apply there, and if you don't get in we're going to tell you, you didn't get into those institutions, but it turns out there is a program that matches your interests at Fredonia, at Brockport, and you could go there instead. So we're reducing kind of the friction of the application process and making it easier for students to find their place at SUNY.

DC: That’s really interesting. There is a sense among some people that college is not for them, and college is not for everybody, but there's also this barrier as we kind of talk about this, of people who just don't think that they can. And I think a big part of the SUNY system is showing people that they can do that, and I think that's a big benefit to the SUNY system.

JK: Absolutely. When I was a kid growing up, both my parents passed away when I was little. My mom when I was 8 and my dad when I was 12. And, teachers saved my life, school saved my life, but in high school, I struggled the way a lot of kids who've experienced trauma struggle and actually got kicked out of high school.

I always point out to people, that I'm the first United States Secretary of Education to have been kicked out of high school, but I was lucky that people gave me a second chance. That there were teachers and mentors who saw more potential in me than I saw in myself. But when I got to college, I still felt out of place. You know, I worried that somebody was going to tap me on the shoulder and say the admissions office made a mistake, you don't belong here. That sense of imposter syndrome. And so that's a real challenge, making sure that students know college can be for them. And that could be for the 18-year-old who's just coming from high school, but it can also be for the 35-year-old who wants to get more skills that will allow them to move up at the workplace college is for them, too. We've got to do a better job getting that message out.

DC: It's really important, but we are out of time. SUNY Chancellor John King, thank you so much.

JK: Thank you, appreciate it.

DC: The chancellor will testify later this month on funding for SUNY at the higher education budget hearing on the 27th.