Full Episode: The State of Immigration in New York

FULL TRANSCRIPT: The State of Immigration in New York

Dan Clark: Welcome to this special edition of New York now. I'm Dan Clark. In just the last year. More than 90,000 migrants seeking asylum have traveled to New York and New York City specifically. And in that time, both the city and the state have struggled to manage that influx. The problem here has been the sheer volume of asylum seekers all coming here at once, and the cause of all of this is rooted in politics.

It was last August that the first busload of migrants arrived in New York City. And at the time, no one really knew how many were coming or what that would mean for New York City. But we did know how they got here. It turned out that Texas Governor Greg Abbott, who is a Republican, had sent the bus directly to New York City.

Abbott wanted to put pressure on Democrats over immigration policy. And because New York City is a sanctuary city, meaning the city government won't share immigration information with the federal government. It became a target for Abbott and other Republicans who want stricter limits on immigration along the southern border. But there's also been a lot of confusion and misinformation about who these asylum seekers are and about our immigration system in general.

To kick things off this week, we're going to break down the different kinds of immigration and how it all works. In this new edition of our civic series New York and.

Raga Justin: Welcome to New York and Immigration. I'm your host, Raga Justin. As we've said in previous episodes, New York is one of the most diverse states in the country. Take Utica for example, which is home to a growing number of refugee communities. And then there's New York City, which is one of the most culturally varied cities in the world. But how did New York become so diverse? And what does immigration into the state look like today? Even though we're calling this episode New York & Immigration, we'll also be looking at migrants, asylum seekers and refugees. And we'll help explain the different forms of international movement into the state. 

You may be familiar with Ellis Island as an icon of American history. In the 1800s, there was a mass movement of people to the US, largely from various European countries, and New York's harbor was a common port of entry. Ellis Island was established in 1892 to process immigrants coming through the harbor. Over time, the US government decided it wanted to restrict people of certain ethnicities and nationalities from coming into the US in order to prevent the country from getting too diverse. In 1924, the Johnson-Reed Act was passed, which established immigration quotas. These quotas heavily restricted most people from immigrating to the US unless they were from Western Europe.

This wasn't the first discriminatory immigration law to go into effect, as other laws like the Chinese Exclusion Act had been implemented in years past. But it was a notable victory for those who wanted a closed-door immigration policy. It wasn't until decades later that the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed which removed the discriminatory quotas.

This led to a new wave of international movement to New York, especially in the '70s and '80s. That wave of immigration featured folks coming from all parts of Asia, the Caribbean, Africa and more. It was these movements of people that helped make New York the incredibly diverse place it is today. Now we're going to take a current look at international movement to New York. We'll start by going over the difference between immigrants, migrants, asylum seekers and refugees.

These terms are often used interchangeably but there are nuanced differences. Immigrants are people who move to a new country to establish permanent residence. In the US, permanent residents have green cards and have to go through a separate process if they wish to become a US citizen. To go over the differences between permanent residents and naturalized citizens, we spoke with Guillermo Martinez of the Institute on Immigrant Integration Research and Policy at the Rockefeller Institute of Government.

Guillermo Martinez: The main factor differentiating citizenship from a legal permanent resident is the ability to vote. There's been a whole host of court rulings at state courts and federal courts regarding the rights of legal permanent residents versus the rights of native born. 

So that gets complicated, and there's federal restrictions on if you fall on hard times within the first five years of being an immigrant with a green card in the United States, but you really can't access the safety net still programs, right? Unless you're a child that needs healthcare, then you have access to the children's health insurance program. Somebody who is here was given a green card and wants to become a citizen, there's a five year waiting period. There's a fee that has to be paid on application that keeps on getting more expensive and it's over $1,000 now.

RJ: Permanent residents who want to become citizens also have to demonstrate a basic understanding of English, as well as civic and historical knowledge of the US. For migrants, there is no universally accepted definition but it's often used as a catch-all term for people who are moving long distances for economic or safety reasons. Though some like to use migrants as a term to describe people who are temporarily relocating, whereas immigrants permanently relocate. Again, there is not a clear, legal, universally accepted definition for migrants. 

Asylum seekers in the United States are people who declare the legal right to seek asylum at a border crossing. The US can grant asylum and give a fresh start to those who are fleeing persecution. More on that later. Refugees are given refugee status by the international community, the United Nations or a state that is party to the 1951 Refugee Convention. 

Refugees are defined as people fleeing persecution under one of the five protected grounds, which are race, religion, social group, political opinion or nationality. So refugees are similar to asylum seekers, with the main difference being that refugees already have their status determined before arriving in the US, whereas asylum seekers have their status determined after their arrival. This means that refugees are protected from being sent back to the dangerous situation they escaped, whereas asylum seekers who are not granted asylum are at risk of deportation.

Now that we've distinguished the differences between these terms, we'll take a look at the migrant news stories taking place in New York State during the spring and summer of 2023.

It is estimated that over 70,000 migrants have arrived in New York City between the springs of 2022 and 2023. These are people from varying countries and backgrounds. But what many have in common is that they are seeking asylum in the US. As a response, New York City began busting small numbers of migrants to other parts of the state, much to the chagrin of some town and county officials who say that the city has not been communicative enough about their plans. Some officials also raised concerns about safety. Though it should be noted that studies show that immigrants both documented and undocumented, commit crimes at a lower rate than US born citizens. Immigrants, asylum seekers and refugees are also subject to background checks as part of their legal processes. 

So basically, we have nonprofits and local officials trying to navigate the process of supplying migrants with housing and basic necessities. Advocacy groups working with the migrants have reported a need for clothing, toiletries items and extra food. New York City has a contract with a company to take care of food, security and housing for the migrants but we don't know if the city will sustain that support in the long term. 

On top of these logistical issues are the legal issues that migrants have to face. Navigating the asylum process and New York's courts is far from a streamlined experience. 

We spoke with Sarah Rogerson from Albany Law School about what it's like to file for asylum.

Sarah Rogerson: Certainly, you have to assert what's called a credible fear which means you have to document why you have this fear of persecution, right? Credible in the eyes of the government means documented. So, you can say that you fear for your life but unless you can show or prove that that fear is credible and factually supportable it can be tough to make your claim. There's also a one-year time limit. So, one year from the time of entry, you have to figure out that there's this claim available, that what it entails, find a lawyer ideally, many people don't, and their claims suffer as a result. And identify all of the different papers that have to be filed in order to make your claim all within a year of arriving in the United States.

There are a lot of different constraints on folks in terms of being able to, it's not unusual for an asylum application to exceed 1,000 pages of supporting documentation. That is not unusual in these cases. So when you're talking about hundreds of people with these claims, you can imagine what the demand for legal services looks like.

RJ: In addition to the complicated filing process, asylum seekers cannot work until a set amount of time after their application has been filed.

SR: Because of the way that employment authorization works with asylum, the asylum application has to be filed before somebody can apply for employment authorization and there needs to be a certain period of time that has passed. So, it gets very complicated on the work permit front such that people might be working for that whole year to get their asylum application prepared and they can't work that whole year and then some after the filing until they are eligible.

RJ: There's also the issue of the court system being backlogged. As I reported with the Times Union, there are more than 190,000 pending cases in New York's immigration courts. Meaning that asylum seekers could be waiting years before getting their case heard. Next, we'll talk about some ways state and local governments play a role in the immigration process.

The New York State Office of New Americans was established within the Department of State to assist immigrants with information, referrals to free legal aid, civic education, job coaching and more. There are local versions of this type of office as well with the City of Buffalo having their own Office of New Americans which connects immigrants to informational resources and city services. It also implements policies that assist with integration.

Another major aspect of immigration that your local government has control over is their level of collaboration with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, often referred to as ICE. Sarah Rogerson of Albany Law School explains.

SR: We're in an era of immigration law and policy that some scholars have dubbed, the new immigration federalism. Where the federal government still retains control over the administration of immigration law. But for lots of different reasons and in a lot of different ways the federal government has seeded enforcement in some ways to state and local governments through certain programs. 

One of those is the 287 program which refers to a particular section of the immigration law that empowers state and local governments to coordinate with federal immigration enforcement. In places like Albany City where the mayor very early on in the trend of sanctuary declared Albany to be a sanctuary city. That's not legally significant in terms of federal immigration law, but what it does from a state and local perspective is it lets immigrants know, we're not going to ask you for your immigration status when you come and pay your parking ticket or apply for a dog license, or access any of the city services that we have available to you.

RJ: Sanctuary cities have been a growing trend in New York state with cities like Albany, Rochester and Ithaca identifying themselves as such. There is no true definition or set of requirements for what makes a sanctuary city so the protection given to undocumented peoples can vary.

The general idea is that localities to a certain degree can decide not to be involved in immigration enforcement if they don't want to. This is something that your local and county governments can make decisions on and something you can make your voice heard on through voting and contacting your local officials. Immigrants have and will continue to shape the identity of New York and the United States. With the declining birth rates, immigration is a significant contributor to the net growth of the US population. 

Here is Guillermo Martinez on the economic effects of immigrants in our communities.

GM: Immigrants in New York have played a huge role in revitalizing upstate communities. Buffalo, Rochester, Utica, Syracuse, had lost in a range of 30% to 50% of its native born population. Without immigrants moving into those communities, those cities would be devastated, right? The statistic I read recently was that out of the refugee resettlement program over the last 30 years, 40% of those refugees have purchased homes in Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester and Utica. So they've become homeowners, right?

That's a huge economic stimulus for your local economy when you're a homeowner. Now all the associated costs that come to being a homeowner, paying mortgages up, keeping your home, by paying for the plumber, the electrician, the roofer, all those things, right? That's economic- It becomes an economic engine. About 4.5 million New Yorkers are considered immigrants and they contribute almost 25% of the gross state product which is $1.8 trillion. So the economic engine is driven in the state a quarter of it by immigrant labor and immigrant participation in its economic system.

RJ: But looking outside of economics, statistics and policy, it is important to remember that immigrants are neighbors, business owners, friends and members of our communities who have value simply because they are human and are hoping to achieve the American dream just like many of us. That's all for today. Keep learning and I'll see y'all later.

Check out more episodes in the NY& series.

Dan Clark: We've now told you about the different kinds of immigration and how that system works. And in New York, you can see this play out right now with the asylum seekers in real time.

The city and the state still don't have a long-term strategy to house those migrants while they wait for a decision on their requests for asylum. And because it's so early in the process. Those migrants aren't allowed to work either. Some say these issues are just a symptom of a larger problem with an immigration system in the US that's long overdue for an overhaul.

On that point, there are two people with a few ideas. Those are Murad Awawdeh, the executive director of the New York Immigration Coalition and Dr. Dina Refki, who leads the Institute on Immigration Integration Research and Policy at SUNY. We broke it all down at a special panel discussion at the New York State Museum. 

I think the attitude towards it has changed over the past year because we see asylum seekers coming in. So, the situation has changed in that regard. Across the U.S., I think that it's seen differently, so, I want to ask you both first kind of how you see the attitude towards immigration in the United States right now. We can start with Dr. Refki.

Dina Refki: You are right, Dan. There's always been that tension between seeing immigrants as assets and welcoming them into our communities with open arms, helping support the resettlement process. On the other hand, there are always forces that see immigrants as vilified, demonized, and throughout history, this pattern has been in existence. People feel fear. It's they're acting out of fear, of limited resources, of changing the status quo, burdening cities and localities.

But also on the other hand people understand that we are all immigrants, that welcoming refugees or people who need protection is really part of our ethos and our values as Americans. It is enshrined in our humanitarian laws, in the international laws, and we have an obligation to welcome immigrants and refugees in and asylees and provide them with fair, transparent and due process.

DC: Very well said. Murad, what do you think?

Murad Awawdeh: I agree with Dr. Refki and think that if you look at the spectrum of immigration in this in this country, the United States is turning 250 years old in a couple of years. If you look back at the pattern of history with immigration, you end up seeing that with every ebb and flow, A new population of immigrants, you see the see it's literally stock. It's copy and paste. You see the same anti-immigrant narrative for either community, right? It's not about I think we have to remove ourselves and think about our global community and how are we showing up in that moment to offset some of this negative stuff that we're seeing nationally, but also across the state that just recently we started seeing.

DC: As we look at this on a much grander scale right now with asylum seekers coming into New York, we don't know how many have come in over the past year. I think you told me last week maybe 100,000 somewhere around there. It's a big population and in some ways we can see this play out in real time. How policy directly affects these people and what we can do to make them feel more comfortable here as asylum seekers. 

Murad, I want to go to you first on this. I asked you this last week, how do you think the state and the city have done with the situation so far?

MA: We started actually receiving people back, I would say, in March and April directly from the southern border who were being bused initially to Washington, D.C. and then we're being supported to come to New York City because that's where their final destination was going to be. And we immediately met with the city and said, hey, this is happening, and you might start seeing an uptick in individuals arriving at the shelter system. We just want to make sure that the frontline staff understand that these are the people you have, these are their rights, and this is a type of support that they need.

Fast forward to August 5th. We're almost at the one year mark of the first bus coming to New York from Texas, and between June and August, we asked the city to do three things. One is expand emergency, shelter system, invest in emergency legal services, and then invest in community based supports that will support people in actually becoming self-sufficient so that they are not in need of city support anymore. We got one of the three immediately, which was emergency expansion, and I give credit to the city.

One thing I would say on the state level is that we immediately started advocating to the state when we started seeing the numbers actually increase significantly. And to the credit of the governor, she made additional funding available, and that was immediate. Then as we went into the budget season, she made an additional more money available to support the city in their efforts, but also nearly quadrupled immigration legal services funding. 

For us to get to this point where we're having that level of investment is a huge victory. I think people are doing the whole I'm going to stand back and wait and see what happens and plug in where I can, and that's not the leadership we need in this moment. We need people to come to the table to actually have really creative and innovative ideas that are going to be outside of the box because this is what the moment calls for and we're not seeing that.

DC: Dr. Refki, I want to ask you the same question, but also, can I ask you, in a situation like this where we have a lot of immigrants, migrants, and asylum seekers coming to New York, is this the typical thing that happens is they come, we scramble and kind of figure it out, or are there more permanent systems in place or should there be?

DR: Yeah, I think then there is really a consensus now that we have a broken immigration system. We have a system of asylum that is not designed to accommodate mass immigration and it could not accommodate because it's not set up and designed for that. You need an alternative system that's really policies that are driven by humanitarian needs, by considerations of the dignity and respect for people, and a system that accommodates labor and family migration because we need them. They need us and we need them. 

There is a massive shortage of jobs in this country that can only be filled by immigrants and people coming into this country. But we are making them wait for a year to get authorization to work. So we need to fix the system. If we don't, then we're always going to be dealing with this emergency situation. We don't have plans. We don't have systems to accommodate, and we're always going to be really making people more vulnerable and adding to the people who do not have legal pathways to citizenship and settlement in this country.

DC: Some people will say that this situation that we're in right now is unique because New York maybe wasn't expecting this massive influx of people to come to the state and that a line should be drawn at some point in terms of offering services or housing people and things like that. What do you think of that view of this? Should there be a limit? Should there be a line where we say, okay, we're done?

DR: I mean, if we have an emergency plan in place and we have a system that is in those countries of origin to really coordinate the passage of asylees or migrants from their countries to this country and coordinate that process before they come here. And a system that responds to our economic needs that will avoid the chaos and the vulnerability and the exploitation that we're seeing right now.

DC: You know, just from a strict, logical perspective people who make that journey, it's not an easy one. So, they're not coming here for anything easy, of course they would want to work. You know, some people say they don't, but of course they would. 

Murad, I want to go to you kind of from a more of a policy legislation perspective in a little bit, but first, just moving forward as the state continues to respond to this. Where do you think there are areas, avenues for making this smoother moving forward? Is it more housing, work authorization or is it something else? 

MA: I think it's everything, and I think the bigger piece here is that everyone mistakenly causes a migrant crisis that we're dealing with when it's not. It's actually the state, and our different regions in New York have been dealing with an affordability crisis coupled with a housing crisis. We want them to get work authorization as quickly as possible, but also understand that people will work as they see fit to make sure that they're able to support themselves, and people do quickly get a job in the informal economy and then start supporting themselves to rent a room or get a shared apartment and move forward that way.

So this is already a community that's illustrating to the general public, and they've told this to me when I was welcoming busses at Port Authority, we don't want your help, we want to work. And that was several thousand people. That was the first thing that they asked for while extremely tired, extremely exhausted, but with a glimmer of hope in their eyes just saying, I want a job.

DC: And that conversation at the State Museum was part of a preview event highlighting the PBS series Iconic America, which examines national symbols and shares their significance to American culture. The discussion revolved around an episode on the Statue of Liberty and how its symbolism has changed over time. Something a lot of New Yorkers don't know about. You can watch that episode of Iconic America and the rest of the series for free, either on the PBS app.

Catch this week's show on your local PBS member station, or watch on YouTube, Facebook, or using the free PBS app anytime after Friday. A podcast version is available wherever you normally get podcasts. 

On This Week's Edition of New York NOW:

• Thousands of migrants seeking asylum have traveled to New York over the past few years in an effort to restart their lives.
• But that influx has overwhelmed officials in New York City and state government, who've struggled to house and provide basic necessities for those migrants.
• We'll give you a full explainer on the state's role in immigration, and what makes asylum seekers different than refugees and other immigrants.
• Then, Dr. Dina Refki from the SUNY Institute on Immigrant Integration Research and Policy and Murad Awawdeh from the New York Immigration Coalition join us with their take on immigration in New York today, including how the influx of asylum seekers has been handled.

The Statue of Liberty stands in the New York Harbor, but did you know the meaning behind the iconic landmark has shifted over time?

PBS explores that story in the latest installment of Iconic America, a series that explores national symbols, and shares their significance to American culture.

Watch that episode here, or on the free PBS app.