Full Episode: How Will NY Spend $4.2 Billion to Adapt to Climate Change?

Dan Clark: We talk a lot about crime on the show, and that's because in poll after poll, New Yorkers say it's one of their top issues. Even just a few weeks ago, a new poll from Siena showed that New Yorkers are seriously worried about public safety. When asked how serious they thought crime was in New York today, 87% of those polled said it was either very serious or somewhat serious. Only 2% said it's not at all serious. 

But the poll went a little deeper, asking New Yorkers how they're responding to that fear. More than a third of those asked said they felt threatened in a public place by a stranger, and about half say they'd been worried about the safety of their family while they're out in public. About 12% said they bought a gun over the past year.

It's data like that that can drive elected officials to do more on a certain issue like public safety. And they are well aware of how New Yorkers feel about that. This is what Governor Kathy Hochul had to say earlier this week.

Kathy Hochul: It's what we wake up thinking about, what we go to bed thinking about. How we can roll up our sleeves and work together to not rest on our laurels of this being not just the safest big city in America, but you also live in the safest big state in America. 

That's not good enough for us. We're going to keep raising the bar because every New Yorker deserves this security of going to bed at night themselves, knowing that they and their children, their loved ones, are safe.

DC: She was speaking at an event at New York's City Hall where Mayor Eric Adams was unveiling a new plan to combat gun violence. It includes almost half a billion dollars in spending on a bunch of different areas.

A big chunk of it, about $118 million, will go to early intervention programs like mentorship opportunities, and nearly the same amount will be used to connect young New Yorkers with jobs so they're less likely to turn to crime.

But almost just as much, about $106 million will go toward mental health resources and care for people experiencing a mental health crisis. The rest will go toward things like new housing opportunities and outreach. Mayor Adams says that money will be targeted toward areas with higher crime rates.

Eric Adams: You do an overlay with a GPS mapping system of this. You will see the same problems isolated. And concentrated in the same community. This is what Chancellor Banks has been talking about over and over again, that if we don't start really being more proactive, we're going to be in a constant perpetual cycle of being reactive, and that is not what this administration is about when. We have an upstream mindset so that we can prevent people from falling in the river, that we don't have to pull out of the river downstream.

DC: That plan will start to be implemented immediately. Though we should note just for your context that some crime is down in New York City. There were 25% fewer shootings in the first five months of this year compared to last year, according to the NYPD. But other crimes have gone up like grand larceny auto, for example which was up by about 32% in May compared to last year.

We'll keep an eye on it. 

Dan Clark: When voters went to the polls last November, there was a question on the ballot about the environment. It asked voters if New York should borrow $4.2 billion to adapt to climate change in public spaces, buildings and other infrastructure. Almost two thirds of voters approved that borrowing. So now the state has started to spend that money and is hosting a listening tour to hear from the public, local leaders and anyone else about how the rest of it should be spent. At the same time, there's been a lot of confusion and misinformation, frankly, about the state's plans for gas stoves, for cooking. 

Some will tell you that the state is getting ready to ban them, implying that New York is going to come to your house and confiscate your stove. But that's not true and that's not going to happen. I spoke about that spending from the Bond Act and more with New York's top two officials on energy and the environment, Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Commissioner Basil Seggos and Doreen Harris, president of the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA).

Doreen, Basil, thank you both so much for being here. I appreciate it.

I'm going to start with you, Basil. The Bond Act, was passed in last year's election. Voters went to the polls and passed it pretty overwhelmingly. Now you're getting ready to figure out how you're going to spend that money. Can you remind us what the intention of the Bond Act was?.

Basil Seggos: Yes, it's a big and broad act. $4.2 billion that's meant to enhance the state's resiliency, for lack of a better word. That's really what it focuses on. So, you think about our air, our water, the impacts from climate change, the flooding we're experiencing, electrifying our transportation sector and our schools. Those are the large buckets that we're ultimately trying to address, and we're now launching this in a summer that has been dominated by climate impacts, floods, the smoke in the in the upper Midwest and Canada. 

So, people are, I think, looking at the Bond act, the proceeds that will come to New York State from it and saying that was a really smart choice for New York to say yes, $4.2 billion is worth it.

DC: Now I am not clear on this myself. Doreen, I'll go to you for this one, this is money for public spaces and public infrastructure like these? These aren't dollars that are available to like a private citizen to get right? This is just for public spaces?

Doreen Harris: This is this is really focusing on those public spaces and to the commissioners point, really focusing on this topic of resiliency. One reason that I'm sure you're aware of, and I hope others are too is that we've really been traveling the state to listen to these communities is because we want their needs to be reflected in the ways in which we ultimately expend these funds, because these are public investments in the first instance.

BS: I would add to that, and I think it is absolutely dedicated to public spaces. We recognize and we as the law, recognize that community groups, nonprofit organizations also help to manage that space. So, they are indeed eligible for many of the categories private citizens and businesses are not. This is very much public facing.

DC: Yeah, and I think when we talk about public spaces, maybe it's wider than some people think.

Public spaces can mean something from making roads more resilient to weather. When we see these roads getting washed out, are there ways that we can make them more resilient to these storms?

I think when people think about it more of that way and how this benefits everybody writ large, it's a lot easier to get on board with, which is great.

Doreen and you too Basil, you mentioned the listening tour that you're on right now to hear about how this money will be spent. Who do you want to hear from at these hearings? Is it people, government officials, business, who do you want to hear from?

DH: You just listed the target audiences for these listening sessions. We've had a number of sessions, including virtual sessions as well. But one thing that we know and I'm sure folks around New York know is that the solutions that are brought to bear are going to be very different, perhaps in different geographies of the state. 

We're going to be launching in August four different sessions in downstate and Long Island, and the solutions there may not be the same as those that we heard about in Buffalo when we kicked this off with Governor Hochul earlier this summer. 

All that to say, we really do learn a lot from the attendees and they run the gamut from public officials to private citizens to community groups and beyond, really informing the ways we can most effectively invest these funds.

DC: Is it difficult at these listening sessions of these hearings to kind of separate the climate change part of it? When we see it we're talking about extreme weather. So, in some spaces in Buffalo, we see extreme weather with seven feet of snow over three days, on Long Island, we see extreme weather as the remnants of a hurricane devastating communities and flooding. Is it difficult to show at these meetings that climate change is the cause here?

DH: Oh, I definitely would say that we have all, not just here in New York State, but around the world. We all recognize that we are both fighting climate change and adapting to climate change at the same time. That's the unfortunate juxtaposition that we're in.

While we are aggressively pursuing the goals of New York's climate law, we know we need to do so in light of this ever more extreme environment in which we are living. And that's really what this is about. We have to do both simultaneously.

DC: It's top of mind for me all the time. I'm thinking about climate change all of the time in my life now. Whether it's the containers that are in recycling, the number of trips that I'm making to the grocery store in a given week, I'm trying to reduce that. I'm making these changes in my life, and I'm assuming these are the kind of changes that we would like to see from the money in the Bond Act.

Basil, what is the timeline look like for this? We passed it last November. It has had a little bit of a complicated history in terms of the first round. We couldn't have a go forward because of that state's finances, but now it was approved by voters. So, when do we get to the part where you release how the money will be spent and on what timeline will be spent?

BS: Well, it's actually underway right now. The first big tranche of money through the Environmental Facilities Corporation, the application for it was made available now to the public and the Governor just extended the deadline because of the floods we've had this summer into mid-August. 

So those dollars, 200 million out of the Bond Act, plus another 200 plus million dollars out of other state funds are being made available for water infrastructure. Another issue that this bond act is trying to resolve, the issue of water both underground and above ground water infrastructure. As soon as that grant period that I've compared ends, we would move quickly into the awards and ultimately get those dollars onto the street. 

And that's just one part of funding. There are other pots of funding that we are now currently drafting and finalizing the criteria for and all of that criteria that goes out to the public for their comment. So, whether it's funding for clean energy, whether it's funding for farm protection, we want to make sure the public has a chance to weigh in on what kinds of projects will be eligible so that we then make the right choices in terms of awards. So really soon.

DC: Absolutely. 35% of the funding, according to the act, has to be set aside for environmental justice problems. I want to go over what that means first. So, can you describe what we're talking about when we say environmental justice problems or programs?

BS: You might remember from the state's climate law, the CLCPA, which set a really a national standard in some ways because the Biden administration actually copied what we were drafting here in the state, this mandatory 35% investment in disadvantaged communities with a target of 40% investment. What that gets at is the historic disinvestment and also the fact that most of those communities you think about, communities of color, poorer communities around the state have been bearing the brunt of pollution for decades. So, we are trying to be very deliberate. In fact, not just making environmental investments, but making environmental investments to change the course of certain communities. 

So, we spent more than two plus years working on what a disadvantaged community was. There's a very important definition. If we're going to make those investments. You need to make them in the right places. So, we really got to defining those characteristics.

Statewide we have maps indicating which are environmental justice communities, and that then will help applicants, help us to steer those investments in places that need green space, that have dirty air, that need an influx of green jobs. And that's really at the heart of the Bond Act.

DC: There are some communities that may say why set aside a certain amount of the funding for environmental justice? Because some communities may say I don't have an environmental justice problem, but the environment in my community is not doing great. Why set aside that funding and not just have it, you know, even across the playing field?

BS: Well all communities across New York State are eligible for bond funds. We made a determination that we needed to place an emphasis on environmental justice communities because those are some of the most impacted communities when it comes to environment. So, you talk about spending state dollars wisely, we know that making an emphasis on those communities is a chance for the state and these communities to get out of the cycle of disinvestment they've been in for so long. So, it is very important for those are the communities.

In some cases, of course, urban communities think about the South End neighborhood of Albany or Harlem, but it's also many rural communities across the state that have had that disinvestment for years. So again, we follow the data on that. The data indicates where the disadvantage communities are, and then we make the investments accordingly.

DC: Sure. 

Doreen this is a lot of money and for people who may not be following it day today, I could see some confusion about how this looks like tangibly for these communities. 

If I'm somebody either in an environmental justice community where the money is being spent directly and targeted there, or I'm just a community that that qualifies for this type of funding, what does it look like tangibly for me? Is it better roads, better more resilient buildings?

DH: Well, there's different categories of the $4.2 billion and really this is all intended to be very local with respect to the investments that we're making. So, yes, infrastructure is definitely on the list, all the more important in light of the changing climate and the impacts thereof. But let me give you a couple of additional examples.

NYSERDA specifically is working carefully to determine the best way to deploy $500 million focusing on electric school busses. There's a requirement in New York State to really phase in the purchase of electric school busses in the late 2020s as an example. That’s a real place that we're leading because we know there's huge benefits that come not only from an air quality perspective, but for the young students that are in these busses, in the communities that they serve.

So that would be a great example of a place where we will directly be working with school districts to have the tools and resources available to deploy those busses and to have those benefits across the community. It really does run the gamut through every sector of our economy.

DC: I would assume those busses in particular would make a very big difference, right?  I mean, just for my school, which had a graduating class of 50, I think we have 13 busses going out in the community twice a day to pick up and drop off. So a big school district must have a significant impact, I would assume?

DH: It's a big lift, but a huge impact. 

When we think about schools, they’re another place we'll be investing in through the Bond Act, and we think about busses like what is more personal then than these young students and the impacts that they're having. If you sat on an idling diesel bus, I'm sure you know what was going on with the air quality within the bus, and ultimately we've got really exciting solutions that can be brought to bear to address that that challenge and create better health at the same time.

DC: All right I'm going to switch gears to a very different but related topic. It's the topic of gas stoves, which is something that’s not really gas stoves, but the phase out of fossil fuels in new construction, but this issue has been really laser focused on the issue of gas stoves because it's something that people can relate to.

It's something that they use every day and they're being told falsely at times that New York State is going to come and rip their gas stove out of their wall, I think. 

I just want to go over what the law passed in this year's budget is actually going to do what the requirements are for people, and I’ll be very straightforward.

So, the dates first. By 2026, buildings of seven stories are futures will or will not be allowed to have fossil fuel hookups, and by 2029 for larger buildings. Let's start there.

I'll start with you Doreen. If I'm somebody who lives in a house that has a gas stove right now, my house is already built, will I have to change anything in 2026?

DH: So, the answer to that is unequivocally no. There is no change to existing buildings at all that are part of this legislation. But I would say when we think about how we get from here to there and how we actually address climate change as a state, buildings are going to be part of that equation. 

We know that they're actually the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in our state, we talked about that a long time ago, and ultimately we know that new buildings are the best place to start and really get at that issue.

So, we as a state build about 40,000 new buildings every year. That's what this is targeting. So, nothing with respect to existing buildings or homes, but really allowing new construction to proceed in a way that utilizes zero emission technologies like heat pumps, induction cooktops, electric dryers, you know, those are the technologies that are very available and create a better quality of life for their inhabitants. 

When you're thinking about new construction, it can be done really with almost no cost premium, especially considering all the federal incentives that are available. So, what we're talking about is starting at the beginning and really focusing in the places where there are real benefits to be gained as we advance toward our broader goals.

DC: Basil on that note, if I am somebody and it's 2027 and I live in my home that has been around for quite a while, my gas stove breaks down and I have to replace it. Can I replace it with a new gas stove or do I have to convert to electric?

BS: The good answer is yes. I mean, you could make that choice, right? Consumer choice will still be there at 2027. We are expecting, as I think the market is showing right now, that the price of these gas and electric stoves is coming down. So, if you're someone who wants to make that transition, you can just as if you wanted to switch to an electric vehicle, at this point. Those prices are also coming down. 

So that choice, I think, will dominate the marketplace for many years to come, and we're hoping that New Yorkers can educate themselves about the benefits of that transition, as we have here at DEC and at NYSERDA.

DC: But they won't have to?

BS: Correct it, won't have to.

DC: So in terms of this, the issue here is really cost for a lot of people. I think now that we have dispelled the myth that they're going to have to replace their gas stove. They certainly could, I prefer electric stoves because I think I'm going to blow up my house one day with my gas stove, but that's just me. I’ll ask both of you, just on the cost of this transition for people, Doreen, you first. What can people do about that?

What resources are available not just for gas stoves but if they did want to make a transition to an electric stove or an electric car, or just to be more sustainable, what are their options?

DH: This is a question that we really spent years looking at as a Climate Action Council and are continuing to. Our agencies are working carefully on implementation of that law, and we recognize that to be successful, we have to keep this affordable for New Yorkers. Like that's full stop on the ways in which we can transition. So how do we do that? 

We leverage dollars everywhere we can. Federal dollars are a huge focus. If you're out to buy that electric vehicle, take a look at the ways in which you can get very lucrative rebates right now as an example. But we also recognize that we need to do this on people's time, and by that, I mean when your stove is broken and needs to be replaced, there's going to be solutions that are brought to bear that are affordable and available, and that's really what we're talking about. Not changing things out of cycle, but when the cycle is up, having those technologies available for folks to buy them in a way that is cost effective.

DC: Sure. Basil, anything to add?

BS: Well, I'll just say when my lease ran up on my last vehicle, I looked at the electric vehicles that were available and I was able to make a choice based on that without any real incentives. I had a basic federal incentive, but I was able to compare the cost of ownership of a gas vehicle with an electric vehicle, and actually it was cheaper for me to have the electric vehicle over the course of the of the life of that of that vehicle, and I'm reaping the benefits of that right now. 

The issue of range anxiety really to me hasn't has been a problem, and I drive an enormous amount across New York State. So, I think that's a sign of things to come, right? The technologies will improve as long as the government is providing the right signals to that transition, and then consumers can then make those choices without fear of not being able to get from A to B or not being able to make a bowl of pasta.

So that's really where we are right now. We're in this very interesting and important transition period.

DC: All right, DEC Commissioner Basil Seggos and NYSERDA president Doreen Harris, thank you both so much. 

The next two listening sessions on the Bond Act are happening this month in New York City and its suburbs. More information about the Bond Act and the listening tour can be found here

Dan Clark: In a new edition of New York by the Numbers, a segment where we tell you about something in New York using a number. This week that number is 13.8 and it has to do with high-speed internet. It's no secret that New York has struggled to make high speed Internet accessible across the state. I'm not talking about availability that's different. In terms of availability New York is doing pretty well according to data from the state. High speed Internet, also called broadband, is available to 97.5% of locations here, but other data shows it's not always accessible, meaning that even though it exists, not everyone is able to get it, and a lot of the time that's because of the cost. That brings us to this week's number, 13.8.

That's the share of households in New York that didn't subscribe to high-speed Internet as of two years ago. According to a report from the state comptroller's office, many of those households, according to the report, had an income of less than $20,000. 

So earlier this year, the federal government expanded access to the Affordable Connectivity Program. That's a program that gives low-income people a $30 discount on their Internet. Because of the expansion, some Internet providers are encouraging people to sign up. They're calling on local leaders to spread awareness. Michele Sadwick is from Greenlight Networks, a high-speed Internet provider that's expanding across New York.

Michele Sadwick: It's almost like the best kept secret that this even exists. Which is really interesting and we talked to the local officials, for example, as I mentioned, you know, supervisors, help us spread the word to your communities and to your residents that this exists. So, the awareness of the affordable connectivity program, I think, is very much lacking.

We're trying to do our part, but I think there's an opportunity there for you know, for other community leaders and political leaders to also spread the word about this.

DC: For full disclosure, Greenlight Networks will benefit as more users sign up through added revenue but we wanted to speak with an actual provider about how they saw the program and how more people could take advantage of it. 

Heading back to the Capitol now with some news in education. We're about a month out from the start of the school year, which means if you're a parent, you're probably already school shopping and the state is spending some money, too.

New funding will be made available to schools this year to help support mental health services coming out of the pandemic. Now, mental health in New York schools was already a problem before COVID. For some schools, the money just is not there to provide stronger resources for their students. But this funding could help change that. $108 million will be made available to schools who have to apply for the money by August 18th.

State Education Commissioner Betty Rosa says having those resources could be a game changer for students impacted by trauma.

Betty Rosa: Trauma can result from food and housing insecurity, isolation, families, loss of income and loss of parents or caretakers. These experiences can manifest in many ways, affecting students’ ability to regulate their emotions and behavior, as well as the ability to pay attention in classrooms.

DC: The funding was approved in this year's state budget, so keep an eye out next year to see if it's renewed. 

Catch this week's show on your local PBS member station, or watch on YouTube, Facebook, or using the free PBS app anytime after Friday. A podcast version is available wherever you normally get podcasts. 

On This Week's Edition of New York NOW:

• How will New York spend the $4.2 billion that voters authorized it to borrow last year, to adapt to climate change? And is New York taking your gas stove away? We'll answer those questions with DEC Commissioner Basil Seggos and NYSERDA President & CEO Doreen Harris.
• A new installment of our segment New York By The Numbers, which uses a number to tell about something in New York you might not know about. This week's number is 13.8, and deals with access to high-speed internet in New York.
• Gov. Hochul and New York City Mayor Eric Adams team up for an announcement on public safety in New York City. We'll have details.
• Plus, what's next for mental health in New York's schools? New funding is available.

Click here to view the latest dates for listening sessions on the Environmental Bond Act.